[IDEA] Question: is there plans to use F2FS?

[Exnor]

Hi to all devs, coders an contributors .

Is there any plans to switch the file system to F2FS? for what i've read this would be nice for our SDcards...

thanks to all

[belese]

Not sure but if i remember a post from mk01 it's already supported. But don't remember where i read it, forum or github

[IriDium]

Mr Google wins the day. http://forum.xbian.org/thread-1770-post-19521.html#pid19521

[Exnor]

(19th May, 2014 10:57 PM)IriDium Wrote:  Mr Google wins the day. http://forum.xbian.org/thread-1770-post-19521.html#pid19521

Thks for the link but i could not understand if is or not supported

Anyway if it is, is it possible (or even a good idea) to convert the main partition to F2FS?

Thks.

[CurlyMo]

You can test Raspbmc, i believe they run on F2FS.

[Exnor]

(23rd May, 2014 10:59 PM)CurlyMo Wrote:  You can test Raspbmc, i believe they run on F2FS.

Ok thanks for the tip but i really am committed to Xbian. I've tried Raspbmc before and OpenElec but i still prefer Xbian.

My curiosity is about using F2FS on Xbian since i use a SDCARD as the only storage medium on the Pi...

[IriDium]

From what I read in MK01's post, was that the option is available in (devl) to convert and run on any FS you require. (I haven't tried it or tested it).

However, I'm not too sure about your concern of BTRFS on SD cards. I run my main RPi on a Kingston Class 10 4G micro SD card (With adaptor) and have never had any issues with it - I also remember that @CurlyMo and others have not had issues with good quality sd cards. There seems to be a good reason to go for micro SD cards, as they tend to use better hardware.

Personally I wouldn't keep anything critical on a SD card that has constant I/O (Not without multiple backups - of which I keep many (Full image once a month (Or when things change) - /home bi-weekly)

If you're having issues with your SD card - Get a Kingston 8G USB3 USB Drive from Amazon for about £5 and use the xbian-config to clone to it. Job done. No more I/O on SD card after booting.

The "Ideal" solution would be a SD card to USB adapter where you plug the adapter into the RPi and then plug your drive into that.

ext4, btrfs, F2Fs which is better? Who knows. Is an Audi better than a VW or a BMW?

Out of curiosity, what makes you think F2FS is any better than BTRFS?

[Exnor]

(24th May, 2014 01:50 AM)IriDium Wrote:  From what I read in MK01's post, was that the option is available in (devl) to convert and run on any FS you require. (I haven't tried it or tested it).

However, I'm not too sure about your concern of BTRFS on SD cards. I run my main RPi on a Kingston Class 10 4G micro SD card (With adaptor) and have never had any issues with it - I also remember that @CurlyMo and others have not had issues with good quality sd cards. There seems to be a good reason to go for micro SD cards, as they tend to use better hardware.

Personally I wouldn't keep anything critical on a SD card that has constant I/O (Not without multiple backups - of which I keep many (Full image once a month (Or when things change) - /home bi-weekly)

If you're having issues with your SD card - Get a Kingston 8G USB3 USB Drive from Amazon for about £5 and use the xbian-config to clone to it. Job done. No more I/O on SD card after booting.

The "Ideal" solution would be a SD card to USB adapter where you plug the adapter into the RPi and then plug your drive into that.

ext4, btrfs, F2Fs which is better? Who knows. Is an Audi better than a VW or a BMW?

Out of curiosity, what makes you think F2FS is any better than BTRFS?

No mate you miss my point here... i only want to extend a little more the "life" of the SDcards i use since i have Pi's running 24/7 (no point in shutting them down since they only consume 15W each with my current power converters/PSU).

Of course i make backups... that is not my concern here.

I don't know much about F2FS but i know how limited is the write cycles on a flash based memory (NAND, NOR makes little difference), and for what i've read about f2fs its designed to limit the "stress" on the same addresses over and over... (now i might be wrong... i dont know if i got that right).

If f2fs actually reduces continued stress on the same addresses (i mean memory map addresses of course) it would in theory give a little more time to live to my current setups... i use 8 GB Sandisk SDcards and i dont store anything else besides Xbian and its components, so if the OS continues to write and delete (that is a write cycle on flash mem) on the same addresses over and over without using the rest of the space, it will "kill" the transitional gate faster on that part of the flash... or so i think... i might be wrong... i really dont know how the FS deals with the write cycles and when that sector/address fails if it reallocates to another address like on a magnetic storage device.

dont know if i'm explaining myself correctly.

thks.

[CurlyMo]

Quote:i only want to extend a little more the "life" of the SDcards i use since i have Pi's running 24/7

I have been developing a lot on my Raspberry Pi's since they are released. That means i write A LOT to them. In those time, i never had issues with too much write. So, i think i stress the SD card 10 times what normal users do so that would make a lifetime of 30 years, of to be more realistic 10 years.

[Exnor]

(24th May, 2014 07:17 AM)CurlyMo Wrote:  

Quote:i only want to extend a little more the "life" of the SDcards i use since i have Pi's running 24/7

I have been developing a lot on my Raspberry Pi's since they are released. That means i write A LOT to them. In those time, i never had issues with too much write. So, i think i stress the SD card 10 times what normal users do so that would make a lifetime of 30 years, of to be more realistic 10 years.

isn't the "typical" write cycle endurance of about near 10K for every bit address ? since every write and erase count as writing how much a mass market Sandisk SD card running 24/7 on xbian will last?

[CurlyMo]

As long to not to worry.

[IriDium]

With a Sandisk 8G class 4 micro sdhc at £4.50 is it worth worrying about?

...an no I haven't really noticed any difference running Xbian on class 4, 6 or 10.

[CurlyMo]

In my experience class 10 is way faster for my workflow. Running ldconfig is about 4x faster.

[Exnor]

(25th May, 2014 02:31 AM)IriDium Wrote:  With a Sandisk 8G class 4 micro sdhc at £4.50 is it worth worrying about?

...an no I haven't really noticed any difference running Xbian on class 4, 6 or 10.

Well you are right... its really nothing to worry about lol. I was just curious to see how F2FS performs and if it is really a benefit.

BTW i use class 4 and they perform perfectly... i don't store anything on them besides the Xbian distro and the XBMC plugins/add-ons/scripts/whatever they are called oh and the logs of course that are always been updated .

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(25th May, 2014 12:57 AM)CurlyMo Wrote:  As long to not to worry.

Just for curiosity in real scenarios how long does a SDcard NAND gate actually lasts? i mean for average usage as primary storage device for the OS.

[mk01]

(24th May, 2014 09:33 PM)Exnor Wrote:  isn't the "typical" write cycle endurance of about near 10K for every bit address ? since every write and erase count as writing how much a mass market Sandisk SD card running 24/7 on xbian will last?

my first RPI SD card A-DATA - bought Jan 2013. Running my devel RPI ever since nonstop.

if you have real concern about data, do live mirror to another device / card / partition. or boot from networked mirrored storage via NFS.

and be on-topic. IriDium remembers right. Xbian-config can do a clone (that we all know). Xbian-config can do a clone to whatever partition type (fstype) you like and XBian without any change will boot from it and work correctly.

when doing partition->partition copy you put /dev/sda1 as dest (/dev/root is predefined source - booted system). this way dest fstype will be btrfs.

when you put f2fs:/dev/sda1 it will be formatted as fsf2.

"any" type is true and is not true, currently allowed is f2fs, ext4, nfs, file.. implementing any other would mean just make xbian-config recognise for instance "ext2" as valid.

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(25th May, 2014 03:38 AM)Exnor Wrote:  Well you are right... its really nothing to worry about lol. I was just curious to see how F2FS performs and if it is really a benefit..

I elaborated few months back about that as well. There is nothing to be curious about - and it is not (benefit).

You won't see a difference. Ok, not really, f2fs and ext4 feel a bit snappier when running ssh console. Nothing else.