[TASK] Please give us a feedback, comments

[f1vefour]

I have decide to split this section from original thread as it was not related to it any more. Now this is dedicated to feedback about XBian news, updates, social media updates, etc


That is not at all what I mean.

OpenELEC has more developers and is super simple compared to XBian, it is just a media center. XBian is a full blown Linux system.

The manual change was necessary because the member who was hosting the repo went missing. The same thing just happened to Milhouse over on the OpenELEC side, which I opened the github issue for the update plugin that got the URL corrected and the issue fixed.

Every time someone says XBian development has been abandoned it really pisses me off, our few developers work their ass off and even share code with OpenELEC and others. It is an insult to say otherwise.

@mk01 @CurlyMo @menakite and the rest of our contributors, we love what you do.

Modbreak:
PS. anaconda == menakite.

[CurlyMo]

FYI, XBian has contributed important code / fixed important bugs into XBMC, CEC, Raspberry Pi kernel, CuBox-I kernel that eventually almost all made their way in OpenElec and OSMC. We cooperate a lot with XBMC developers, popcornmix (Raspberry Pi), jnettlet and rabeeh (SolidRun), etc. I believe more than 75% of the fixes for the RaspberryPi and CuBox-I CEC code came from @mk01, and the Hyperion blinking bug in OE was squashed by me together with popcornmix.

[f1vefour]

Thanks, I didn't know that. I was wondering why he had no forum name.

[rikardo1979]

(3rd Jan, 2015 07:50 PM)f1vefour Wrote:  That is not at all what I mean.

OpenELEC has more developers and is super simple compared to XBian, it is just a media center. XBian is a full blown Linux system.

The manual change was necessary because the member who was hosting the repo went missing. The same thing just happened to Milhouse over on the OpenELEC side, which I opened the github issue for the update plugin that got the URL corrected and the issue fixed.

Every time someone says XBian development has been abandoned it really pisses me off, our few developers work their ass off and even share code with OpenELEC and others. It is an insult to say otherwise.

@mk01 @CurlyMo @menakite and the rest of our contributors, we love what you do.

Modbreak:
PS. anaconda == menakite.

OE is what is it for many reasons, which one is thats multiplatform, so it keeps attracted by thousands cos majority use full sized PCs etc. another thing is that they inform about everything, and I mean everything, no matter how small it is. they just leting people know what is going on and there is still something. if its on their site or social media, FB, G+, Twitter. you can see some updates all the time, no matter what is it
We do not have this, cos for some its pointless

[f1vefour]

XBian update mechanism (apt) makes it much more difficult to keep a running tally of what's updated and what these updates actually bring.

(Example) Bash: version bump 2.01a -> 2.01b

I know it's what people want but it's hard because my system and your system won't contain the same software or even version. And because our packages don't only emulate from our repo it makes it even more difficult.

OpenELEC updates are static so it makes keeping a changelog relatively easy, each piece is integrated by the development team. With XBian it isn't like that at all.

[rikardo1979]

(3rd Jan, 2015 08:36 PM)f1vefour Wrote:  XBian update mechanism (apt) makes it much more difficult to keep a running tally of what's updated and what these updates actually bring.

(Example) Bash: version bump 2.01a -> 2.01b

I know it's what people want but it's hard because my system and your system won't contain the same software or even version. And because our packages don't only emulate from our repo it makes it even more difficult.

OpenELEC updates are static so it makes keeping a changelog relatively easy, each piece is integrated by the development team. With XBian it isn't like that at all.

you missed the point, and that is people want information. we live in info age, and more the social media age. you dont post=you are dead. people dont see movement, they thing is not there. they dont see inside, dont understand the code and they shouldnt.

[f1vefour]

I don't miss the point Richard, it is hard to do this with an apt system.

Since you know the point so well give me an example of what the people want, because what most people want in my opinion is updates available and a trouble free experience. Not constantly knowing what updates are for.

[rikardo1979]

(4th Jan, 2015 03:46 AM)f1vefour Wrote:  I don't miss the point Richard, it is hard to do this with an apt system.

Since you know the point so well give me an example of what the people want, because what most people want in my opinion is updates available and a trouble free experience. Not constantly knowing what updates are for.

what people want? they want to know that there is a development. how do they know the project is still alive?for a newcomer, how he going to know whats the latest XBian? whats the latest XBMC in it? what the next XBMC update will be? nothing like this is on our site, is it? I mean without going through our forum or anywhere sideways from main site or social media how these people are going to find out?
so many are scared of forum, no surprise tbh.
and nobody should be pushed to come here and search and ask.
you get my point now? if no contact me on hangouts in person and we can have a chat or even a videocall so I can explain in a real detail Im not afraid of contact like others are

[f1vefour]

They should know there is development because the system is always providing updates.

If you want users to know that XBian is constantly updated why not put it on the main site? I agree that many people don't understand how apt based systems work and this would be the perfect information to put up on the front page.

About how apt based systems work (Debian site will have nice copyable information), how updates are coming not only from XBian but other repos as well, that new images are not the way to update the system, about how much bandwidth users save by not having to download 100 megabytes each time to update a few files.

This among other things can be placed on the front page, if the users need more hand holding they should use the forum.

[rikardo1979]

(4th Jan, 2015 05:07 AM)f1vefour Wrote:  They should know there is development because the system is always providing updates.

If you want users to know that XBian is constantly updated why not put it on the main site? I agree that many people don't understand how apt based systems work and this would be the perfect information to put up on the front page.

About how apt based systems work (Debian site will have nice copyable information), how updates are coming not only from XBian but other repos as well, that new images are not the way to update the system, about how much bandwidth users save by not having to download 100 megabytes each time to update a few files.

This among other things can be placed on the front page, if the users need more hand holding they should use the forum.

the person who already have XBian running know about update, of course talking about someone who come across XBian and want to know what is it, on what stage it is compare to other distros, if there is anything newer or same, etc, etc. so without blindly trying to install and see what is it come out like after first boot not everyone have a time and like Kinder Surprise
Me, like most of the people I would like to know what I going to try and what I should expect before I put it and before I try it. I would call it a base information here, something to start with
For me, as for most of others (im more than sure) this would be really handy to know, so they know its up to date, so they know there is a lot of movement behind the code walls what only devs living in matrix can normally see. people dont need to understand code, they dont need to know the code and what it does.
All they need to know there are great people behind, inside this matrix world making it, improving it, maintaining it
But they need to know. If they dont see it, without searching and trying, they not going to take it. as by looking at something which has no information updated they never going to see whats inside, and thats why most of the people just passing by, as they dont see anything new here. Also if there is no movement on front page, nor the social media they not even coming here as there is nothing to bring them here

[f1vefour]

I agree that new users need to understand XBian is under constant development by competent developers, how to accomplish this is what should be discussed.

[syco]

Without offending someone, XBian just has
a very poor marketing, to say the least.

I was just lucky to stumble upon it due to
an article one year ago, comparing OE, XBian
and a third one, I can not remember.

Somehow, you need a guy who does all
the loud-speaking stuff on the main website
(news) and on a facebook page.

Just compare: XBian is fucking great, but
it has like only 2000 likes on FB. OE has
around 18000.

Rikardo is right, where there is no "movement"
in social media, there is no "product" or
people are just not aware of it and that
is sad, because XBian really rocks in my
eyes.

---

I mean, wtf?! Even Raspbmc has 23000
likes and that thing is really crappy. Weird.

[rikardo1979]

@syco thanks for your feedback, appreciate
so its not just me seeing things this way I was starting to worried than I am somehow weird (tbh I am )

[rikardo1979]

but to make things a bit straight, OpenElec is a multiplatform, thats where the numbers coming from
and OSMC romaly RasBMC was here first and it was a great successor on Apple TV so again there was a massive background there so it was easier to start.
Where XBian came from nowhere and as last one to Raspberry Pi playground and there were a big bumps we have crossed

So mentioning these, it requires a lot of power to put all back and make things right. Something we need to really work on. Not as a core crew members, but as a whole community.
So I can use this as a small appeal to all, if you would like to participate, one way or another, you are more than welcome and all the help is appreciated

edit:maybe I could make this as a separate sticky thread?

[calhaus]

I've fast read the comments and agree mostly with the users talking about social updates.
No infos about the updates on the web=the project is stopped for mostly.

I'm a linux only guy (Mint, so apt it's just a normal thing), and after some problems with the apt updates on xbian breaking my system, i've only do one or two updates with apt when i still have installed a clean, and prefer to wait for new releases to upgrade my pi with a clean environment.

Since, normaly i don't have an up-to-date Xbian with apt, one thing i've miss are changelogs/history (with the main important new features) on git or sourceforge.


For example, I'm receiving emails from sourceforge telling me that Xbian has new updates (Here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/xbian/files/testing/ ), but i can't find new info about the images and what's new.

For example what's new in "xbian-image-rpi-20150112.img.gz"? Is this a direct image from git on that day?
What differs maily from xbian-image-rpi-20150111.img.gz or the RC3 version?


This for me would be good infos/updates people could know.
I'm on RC2, and if i had a changelog of what happened after RC3 would be really quick to know if i should install RC3, a "daily" image (xbian-image-rpi-20150112.img.gz) or wait for RC4/stable...